Problem in accessing ARIS Community site

Hi Rupesh,

I confirm the behaviour you describe, but there is nothing we could change about it. If you are on the front page and browse through the list of posts, only the part showing the posts is loaded dynamically. This helps to speed up the page, because it only reloads this particular part of the site and not the whole page. The drawback is as you reported. You can't use the back button anymore.

To work around this problem, the best is to not open articles in the same window, but open a new tab and leave the state of your browsing available.

Thanks for the info Sebastian. But logically thinking this is not user friendly at all.

Regards,

Rupesh

I don't agree completely, because fast page loads are user friendly. User experience is always a trade-off between different goals. But it is true that we are now at a brick where the "Back" button of a browser might become obsolete. In many rich Internet applications such as Google Gmail or Google Maps, you can't use the back button either.

Just discovered, that I can't select group where I would like to post my message.

There is a strange policy to assign users to particular groups, where we can post messages. Somebody did this assigments and now I can post messages in the group... ARIS FORUM 2009. Thanks very much!!!

Sure, we can comment any post by officials, but it looks like this site doesn't allow me as a member of community to start discussion about the subject of my interest in the group of my interest. There are no rules defined what and how we can discuss (any social network forum has such rules and it works).

I do not think that these policies will help to build a community based upon interest, but not desire of site organisers. As a result, for instance, Russian Blog filled by marketing materials about "How wonderfull to wake up BPMonised"

I think that the site organisers would like to bar members of community from starting discussions they would like to discuss. I do not think that this approach is productive, cause it makes one way traffic of knowledge and information and looks like a pity replica of a Big Brother

Hi Sergei,

I don't really understand your points. Community members are assigned by default to the "We love BPM" group. Every community member is free to join other groups. There are some groups, which you can't join, e.g. ARIS BPM Blog. This is the case, because that are official channels by IDS Scheer.

After joining a group, you can immediately post in those groups. There is no moderation done, so you are free to choose your topic.

About rules: Rules are defined. Please take a look at the ARIS Community Guidelines. The rules are simple: be polite and don't spam the community. We don't limit the number of topics to be discussed. So far, we only removed very few posts and comments, which were clearly spam.

Of course some official groups are more marketing. But you are of course free to challenge what is written there by posting your comments and saying that it is just marketing.

My points are simple:

1. I can't join the group where I would like to post my messages. For example, if I would like to post a message to Russian ARIS Blog - I have no way to join this blog with permission to post messages.
2. I didn't find the way I can join the group I would like to join to.
3. There is no need to participate in commenting marketing feeds, agree..People can filter and understand what is marketing and what is not. But... Building community means 2 way traffic of information What this site offers - is not what builds a community.

I was advised by members of Russian blog to EMAIL MY POST AND THEY WILL POST IT AFTER REVIEW.

I do not consider as acceptable policy.

Hi Sergei,

Russian ARIS Blog is an official communication channel by IDS Scheer Russia. Therefore, it is not possible to post there for non-approved members. I think this is a common practice, because you wouldn't expect to make your own IDS Scheer press release if you are not a representative of IDS Scheer.

Maybe, there is a public Russian discussion group missing, where everyone can post? What do you think?

I know that Russian Blog is an official communication channel by IDS Scheer Russia. My point was - why I was included into this official channel without my permission. I am not against it, however, my point is that such practices doesn't build a community - you include people into the group and doesn't allow them to post their messages and allow them to comment official statements. It looks like what we have here in Russia about 25 years ago. Back to the future?

Self organising communitis organise themseves upon rules. The rules we have here (some sort of BIG BROTHER) doesn't build a community and this is my point that the rules of ariscommunity organisation denies principles of organising community.

I am not against official information feeds, but.. Let's call it IDS SCHEER FEED IN RUSSIAN. People will understand what it is. Now there is RUSSIAN ARIS BLOG, where Russian-speaking people can.... listen and comment IDS SCHEER OFFICIAL statements.

The mixture of concepts confuses people and doesn't help with building a community.

This is my point - Name things propertly and you will free humankind from half of their misunderstandings.

So, change Russian ARIS blog to what is suppose to be and create community for Russian speaking members.

Sorry Sergei, but what do you mean with "I was included into this official channel without my permission"? You are not a member of the blog group.

In general, we respect very much the privacy rights of our users, so it seems we got here some kind of misunderstanding.

I was included into the group citated from Russian blog

"в русскоязычные группы вас включили, чтобы вы там получали доступ к разным материалам и при необходимости могли высказываться. "

Which means, that I was included. I looked into account management and... didn't find the way I can include or remove myself from the group. It could be that I didn't find the interface to join/remove account from the group. Please correct me at this point.

As for privacy settings - it makes me laughing. I have a nickname in my account, which ARIS forum engine uses everywhere, but not in public (login, emails and etc.). But for the public - I am "Sergei Penkov", for the internal correspondence (mails and account name) - I have a nickname. Funny, isn't it? Is it invention of Aris community web develpers?

As a result of that my posts will be indexed by Web robots and you are talking about privacy now?

The only thing left at that point to publish my email account to become famous.

Hi Sergei,

your user profile shows that you are just a member of the "We love BPM" group and the "ARIS Express Support" group. You are also member of 2 Russian groups. The first group is used to distribute the presentations of ARIS ProcessDay Russia to all participants. The second group is used to distribute materials about Russian ARIS webcasts. This group is only available to participants of such webcasts. Please let me know if we shall remove you from any of those groups.

About privacy: Yes, you got a nickname and your fullname (title + firstname + lastname). It is a known bug that the nickname is used in some situations such as emails. We are continuously trying to remove the nickname, but it takes time as it is not easy to solve (technically).

If you post something on ARIS Community, search engines are able to index it. As with every forum software, your name is next to the post so that everyone can see who is the author. If you don't want to see your name in public, don't post something in public! Please, also read the Privacy Policy. 

I'm not sure how a public forum should work if authors of statements are not shown in public. Also note: We are a business community and in a business environment it is a common approach to know the names of persons we are talking to. Therefore, we decided against showing just nicknames on the site.

Please note: Your user profile is NOT available to search engines and will never be.

Thanks for your message, my points are:

1. Community members should be able to control the group the belong to.
   
   Current account management doesn't allow you to do so.
2. Cummunity members should be able to POST MESSAGES to the group they belong to.
   
   Currently it is not the case.
3. All messages should be signatured by SELECTED NICKNAMES of community members.
   
   Sometimes it is appropriate to keep your name behind the curtain (from Web robots).
4. The titles of grops should reflect it content and some sort of segregation should be declared
   
   Members-only
   
   IDS-SCHEER only
   
   Official BPM flood
5. There should be Russian ARIS Blog for MEMBERS, who prefer to publish their thoughts in Russian.
   
   Otherwise community will hear only one voice in Russian - certified bloggers.

To be honest - I am not happy with such community organisation.

If IDS SCHEER is happy with such organisation - we have a confict of happinesses, which means which happiness has more value for the ariscommunity.

Ok, lets go point by point:

1. In general, community members are able to control the groups they belong to as long as the groups are public. The only exception are private groups. Due to a technical limitation, it is not possible for a member to remove himself from such a group. In that case, a short email to contact@ariscommunity.com is enough to get removed.
2. This point is not true. You can post to the groups you belong to.
3. Here we don't agree. It is a decision we took that in a business environment we don't want nicknames. Nicknames only encourage spammers and jerks to post nonsense, which makes the community unattractive to many people. However, it is ok if you do not agree here, even though we are not going to change it.
4. The group titles are not the correct place for it. Usually, we include that info in the group description. But it might be that some group descriptions are not clear enough.
5. Yes, we will create such a group. So far, nobody requested it, but we are fine with adding such a group.

As you can see, some things are different than you perceive them. We are open to what users suggest so no need to rant!

Thanks, your points are clear for me as well that I have illusion that I can post to the groups I belong too.

Lets consider it as my illusion and leave it as is because I can sleep well without having ability to post my messages to the group I belong to. Maybe in the future, when ariscommunity will be bored with official statements (I mean Russian ARIS Blog) there will be an invention which will destroy this illusion and I will be able to achieve the dream of my life - to publish what I whant (my topic) where I want (the group).

Long live Aris community! I bend my knee.

Sergei, false statements don't become true by just repeating them. If you are unable to post to a group you are belonging to it might be just a bug. In that case, please send an email to contact@ariscommunity.com so that we can investigate what is going wrong.

Thanks!

Sebastian, sure it is a pleasure to have discussion with you. I gave up already, but your statements really inspire me.

Look, if false statement (by me) repeatedly describes functionality, which doesn't exist, I agree with you that:

1. This statement will not become true
2. This statement will not remove what you call as BUG

I think, there should be a rule to use key word BUG in relation to the functionality. There is better word - FEATURE, it will be more politically correct from the corporate point of view.

So, lets talk about the FEATURE which, I would like to repeat, DOESN'T ALLOW ME TO POST MESSAGES TO THE GROUP I WOULD LIKE TO JOIN TO.

There is nothing wrong to investigate, as you can see. My points are clear:

1. There is no functionality to join member to the group
2. There is no functionality to remove member from the group
3. The names of the group are missleading
   
   RUSSIAN ARIS BLOG should be BLOG but not IDS SHEER RUSSIA OFFICIAL MESSAGES channel
   
   BLOG is not a MESSAGE CHANNEL

I already accepted these FEATURES after understanding that it is not a BUG.

If you are happly to close this discussion - please take my message as my complete support.

Sergei, my last comment, because I don't think we will get any further. First, take a look how blogs work. A blog is owned by someone who posts messages. Readers are invited to comment, but not to post on the blog. That's how blogs work. So if you read "Russian ARIS Blog" and know what a blog is, you should understand that you can't post there. If you don't understand that you don't know what blogs are.

Second, you can join any public group and after joining a group you can post there. For example, you already joined ARIS Express Support group and you can also leave that group. Just go to the group page, join and afterwards click the big blue "Upload" button. Not sure why so many people managed to do so without ever complaining.

If I review your comments, it nails down to:

• a misunderstanding what "blog" means and how blogs work
• a misunderstanding why you were assigned to some groups and our offer to remove you immediately from those groups if you request
• a misunderstanding how to join groups and how to post to them
• you are not comfortable that your name is shown next to your posts & comments; you would prefer to only see your nickname; we are not going to change that as we believe it is not healthy in a business community
• you request a public Russian discussion group for ARIS & BPM topics, which is a good point and we will create it

Have a nice weekend!

Thanks for your time, Sebastian.

You forgot to mention in your list my confession that I disagree with my own oppinion about blog functionality and consider my oppinion as wrong one.

I also have another oppinion, which I disagree with, that in the customer-oriented society the confession of product vendor about misundersting of a customer means... that something wrong with the vendor.

As an excersise of understanding - try to join any group and, if you can't, accept it as.. misunderstanding how to join the group or as a feature.

May I ask you for a privelege to close this threat? Please (after your comment, of course).