Why is the Database object used on the Express EPC model? Wouldn't it be better to use the Cluster object as this is implementation-neutral? Clusters can represent conceptual, logical or physical levels of data and are not tied to any particular data store. They can be used to represent message content and service parameters.
Sebastian,
I am not sure what this product is for. If you are trying to introduce people to "good" BPM why not introduce them to "good" Architecture at the same time?
Or do you think BPM analysts aren't up to it?
Richard
Hi Richard,
somehow I feel I'm repeating myself :-) "Good" BPM is in the eye of the beholder. One might argue that good BPM is only achieved when a clear and correct modeling method is used and applied. Another view might be, that good BPM is achieved if it pays off. Now you can ask yourself if you want to invest several hours in training people about conceptual data modelling or if you just want to get them optimise their business.
I fully agree that in a corporate enterprise context you will need a correct modelling method, but that is not the target audience of ARIS Express.
Regards,
Sebastian
Sebastian,
Not sure I agree with the "or" in your comment about conceptual data modelling and optimising the business. Current thinking on implementing end-to-end business processes is that rationalising inconsistent data is a prerequisite for success.
"Cluster" may be an abstract concept (IDS Scheer chose the name - not me) but the idea is simple: it's a set of whatever data you need to do the job.
Richard
Hello,
On our side we totally agree with Richard statement, it's up to IDS-Scheer to support whichever modeling schemes, even if they arn't in line with the ARIS Method document.
When we model process information flow, we are interested in input/output deliverables which are information objects but have nothing to do with the data architecture. (e.g. purchase order : input/output vs. referring to entity types :"supplier", "parts", "schedule" and appropriate relationship)
Samuel
Richard,
With reference to your initiating post, I disagree that "cluser" is meant or is good practice to be used for physical level.
Regards
Ivo
Hi Samuel,
we would be very happy to provide a tool able "to support whichever modeling schemes" as long as you are willing to pay for it ;-) You will always need conventions, otherwise it is very hard to provide tool support for it. Please take a look at the following discussion where we present the current state of data modeling method in ARIS.
http://www.ariscommunity.com/users/uro/2009-08-25-data-modeling-layers-aris
Have a nice weekend,
Sebastian
Sebastian Stein on
Hi Richard,
again, you are talking from a standpoint showing long-term experience in business process modelling. However, someone not familiar with conceptual vs. operational modelling will not understand what a cluster is. Here, using something like a "database" is much more natural than using an abstract concept such as "cluster".
Regards,
Sebastian