Hello all, hope anyone can help here :-)
In the current Data Base, I realised that there are function objects with incorrect Group Location (Properties > Information > Location) that information is grey out so seems that cannot be modified (as also includes the GUID) - but is there a way to change the Location of an Object ? In this case a Function object within a Process Value Chain Diagram Model ?
Thanks!
David
Wed, 02/01/2023 - 10:05
In reply to HI Veronika, by DavidEspinosa
Hi Alexander,
The object is correctly placed visually, but guess it was created as an occurrence copy from another object in another group (then deleted the orignal one) - hence this object - although visually is in the right group - it is not assigned to the group it belongs as inherited from the original one. That is what I would need to change :-)
So Drag and Drop is not an option cause it is in the right place "visually" but not in the information it helds inside.
Thanks !
Hi David,
I dare say, that if you use "Go to... Occurrence in Explorer" it should take you to the location of the definition. The group is not a property of the object but its physical location in the database. It may have happened as you say, that the model you show is located in one group, but the object occurring in the model is located in another group. Then you have to move the object to the group where you desire it - most of the time that is the "main" model owning the object ("main" is your perception of how you want to organize it).
If you have a lot of stuff to move around due to major reorganizations or improper moving of models without taking the objects with them, there is a report that can move all objects to their "main" group. Beware that you have to make yourself clear, how the "main" group for each object should be determined. Example: A function should be placed in the group of a VACD where it occurs. If it does not occur in a VACD it should go where it occurs in an EPC...
You should know these rules for all object types before you start using that report. And test your settings on a backup of the database first and validate the outcome. While the Report does perfectly what it is supposed to, sometimes people are surprised to see, what it finds to move around.
Thanks Mr. Zschuckelt,
The issue is that the only one existing object is correctly located in the group visually- but its inherited group information is wrong - so I cannot move it cause it is it its right group, but showing to incorrect groups when running reports.
Thanks
Hello David,
I try to understand your situation with the help of a couple of screenshots. The only way I could understand your situation would be as follows: Your model contains some occurrences like these:
In the explorer structure they originate from two different groups like so:
In this case VACD model contains occurrences of VAC1 and VAC2, but VAC2 is from a different group. In this case you can simply move VAC2 to Group1 using drag & drop, if you have delete privileges on Group2 and write privileges on Group1.
If indeed in your Explorer tree VAC2 is shown in Group1, but delivering a Path "Main group/Group2" in its properties window, as I understand you are claiming it is the case, please contact support.
Thanks !
What I think it happened, similar to what you are saying, is that the modeler made an occurrence copy in another group (so keeping the group path of original object) and then deleted the original object; Leaving the occurrenced copied object "orphan" in the Data Base - then created all the assigments and models using that "incorrect" object.... Thanks all for your interest. I will see with SAG Support if this can be changed.
Have a good weekend!
Hello David,
you cannot make an occurrence copy in another group. That would be a definition copy, hence a second independent object. Occurrences only exist in models. They bear a reference to an object anywhere in the database, that they represent. When you look at the Properties window of an occurrence you will see the information from the referenced object, e. g. the group it resides in. On the tab "Occurrences" of the Properties you get the list of all occurrences of the object and you can navigate to each occurrence in all models it occurs in.
So if your case looks like the hypothesis I made with the screenshots you don't need support.
Hello Mr Zschuckelt,
I am able to copy an object from a Group ie. Procurement and paste it as Ocurrence copy in ie Service Delivery - the pasted object will be "phisically" in the Process Value Chain Diagram of Service Delivery but will keep the original Group path of Procurement. :-)
If I then work on the pasted object and add all assigments there and then I remove the original object - I will then have one unique Process Object in Service, with all assigments and connections there - BUT when exporting it will appear in Procurement and not in Service Delivery - I think this is what happened in my case and the reason I opened this thread to find out if it was possible to change the group path of a process object so it can be exported and reported to the correct group (where phisically is displayed) and not where it inherited.
Thanks all for your interest and have a nice weekend!
Interesting, as in my experience what you are saying "you think happened" actually can't or at least isn't supposed to be able to happen as far as I know. Again print screens of your particular situation would be helpful.
When I paste an Occurrence Copy of an Object into a Model in a Different Group from the Group that the Object Definition exists in, the Group Information Attribute on the Occurrence Copy shows the Group where the Object Definition exists. This is to be expected.
However, if I then go and Delete to Object Definition there is a Warning Message stating that the Object Has Occurrences, do you really want to Delete it. If I answer Yes then the Object Definition and ALL the Occurrences are Removed. There is NO Occurrence left in that Model in a different Group from the Group the Object Definition existed in.
So, again from my experience, you have a situation that should NOT be able to occur and I believe you should open a SAG ticket.
Yes, please contact support to have that analyzed. Either we have a huge misunderstanding in some technical terms or there is something really fishy. If you can reproduce the issue in a sample database it would be much simpler to provide that to support in order to reach a common understanding of the problem.
Dear all,
I´ve discussed the issue with Support. It seems, for unkown reasons, the process object is decoupled with its object Function within the Data Base.
Issue can be solved when searching for the process object in the Explorer (Go to > Occurrence in Explorer) then copy the function object and paste it in the appropiate group. This updates its group path and now all is correct.
Just wanted to share this in case this could happen to someone in the future.
Thanks all for your collaboration too!
David
In reply to Dear all, by DavidEspinosa
